Katie Gillam from our Private Client team, joined CooperBurnett in 2008, becoming a Partner in 2013. She has a wide range of experience in dealing with private client work and specialises in Wills, Trusts, Powers of Attorney and Court of Protection work. She is a previous President of the Tunbridge Wells, Tonbridge & District Law Society.
Gemma Gillespie joined TeamCB nine years ago and is a Partner in our Family & Matrimonial department. She acts on behalf of clients in complex financial cases within divorce proceedings, unmarried breakdowns and private law children proceedings, as well as providing free guidance sessions for people referred by both Citizens’ Advice and DAVSS, the domestic abuse charity. Gemma was part of our Race To The King team, walking an incredible 100km over two days for the children's hospice charity Demelza.
John Spence joined our Litigation team in 2018 as a Partner specialising in Property Litigation. He has over 20 years’ experience in all aspects of property disputes including residential and commercial landlord and tenant work, dilapidations and service charge disputes, business and residential possession claims. John has twice been President of the Tunbridge Wells, Tonbridge & District Law Society.
We’re one month into the new CooperBurnett branding. How do you feel it’s settling in and have you had any feedback?
Katie: “It’s really fresh and clients have commented on the website, which I think looks very impressive.”
Gemma: “I like the look and it feels so much better. As a team, we also love the branded water bottles and bags!”
Katie: “Yes, I see plenty of CB branded bags when I’m in the town at lunchtime.”
John: “The new branding looks impressive and this makes a difference when sending letters to City firms; it gives you a certain degree of confidence. It’s also been noticed positively by other firms in the town.”
You’ll all been here quite a while now – Katie, 16 years; Gemma, nine years; and John, six years. Why have you stayed this long?
John: “I’ve worked at other firms where it’s been very pressured in terms of hitting targets. While the pressure of work never really goes away, it’s more collegial here at CooperBurnett and more like a family than other firms.”
Katie: “We genuinely care about our colleagues here and look after each other.”
Gemma: “It’s a nice atmosphere within the firm and that comes from the top down.”
You’ve all worked at different law firms. What makes CooperBurnett special?
Gemma: “The fact that I’ve worked other places has led me to appreciate how lovely it is at CooperBurnett. As team members, you are trusted and that means a lot.”
John: “Here you’ve got more flexibility and independence. You are trusted to get on with it and there’s no unnecessary micro-management.”
Katie: “It’s good to know that if I need a level of support from someone, there’s always an open door.”
Gemma: “And that support is genuine. If I need to speak to Joe [Joseph Oates] about anything, I can do and he’s very supportive.”
Katie: “Also, from a Private Client perspective, being here for a long period of time means you’ve seen families through everything. Now, I see the next generation coming in and that’s great.”
Gemma: “We all work together well across departments and there are a lot of referrals around the firm. This makes me want to do an even better job, as I’d hate to let my colleagues – and our clients - down.”
John: “CooperBurnett has a good reputation and we all work hard to maintain that.”
John, you spoke about being given ‘flexibility and independence’ and yet there’s a very real CB culture here. How do you all balance being the lawyer you want to be with being within one culture?
John: “Yes, you’ve got autonomy here but I couldn’t do my job without lawyers in other teams – such as conveyancing and corporate.”
Gemma: “My role [in Family law] specifically crosses over into other areas, so it’s important to have good relationships with people in different departments. You can then say to a client ‘this isn’t my area but I can refer you to a colleague’ and you’re not frightened or cautious about doing that. It’s really good that I trust my colleagues to do a good job as well.”
John: “Over the years, we have recruited well and there’s never any pressure to feel that you should be doing something outside your area of expertise. We’ve pretty much got everyone here who can do what you need, within reason.”
Gemma: “I like to work in an all-service law firm; it means I am able to ask a question of professionals in different departments, for example my Corporate and Commercial colleagues if a divorce involves unravelling ties to a business.”
Katie: “Also, as a firm, we have such strong links with accountants and financial advisers locally for instance, so if there’s something we can’t answer internally, then we usually know the right people to speak to externally and that comes with being here for such a long period of time.”
Gemma: “I agree, the connections TeamCB has built within our local business community are second to none.”
In addition to recruiting well, CooperBurnett also has an excellent reputation for growing and developing junior team members. As more experienced lawyers, do to you feel a responsibility to mentor and support the next generation?
Katie: “Yes, I certainly think so. I was in the interview with Katie Hancock when we took her on. She’s now been with us six years and I do feel a sense of responsibility to her. It’s also about encouraging people to take that next step in their careers. I supported Sarah to go for partnership [which she achieved last year] and am continuing to encourage Katie on the pathway for the next level in her career.”
Gemma: “Exactly, I’ve got Melissa [Gire] and Abbie [Keech] on my team and I support them; in fact it’s a part of my role I find really interesting and I love working as part of a team. It also isn’t a one-way street. Young people have lots of ideas which are different from ours and that’s healthy. They are teaching us as well.”
John: “I was first made trainee supervisor back in 2005 and have supported trainees and paralegals at the firms where I’ve worked since then. I’ve seen quite a number go on to do very well. In fact, I’ve got a case on at the moment and have found myself up against one of my previous paralegals, who is now working for a City firm. It’s interesting to see how they come on. Since I’ve been at CooperBurnett, I’ve trained or mentored a number of team members.”
Over the years, you’ve all done things outside of the firm – for example, John and Katie, you are both previous Presidents of the Tunbridge Wells, Tonbridge & District Law Society.
John: “It’s been very useful to make contacts with lawyers all over this town and Tonbridge. It’s enabled me to get me known out there and, indirectly, helped to have worked referred here. I think, overall, it’s benefitted me enormously and I’m still on the committee until January. In fact, over the years, all three of us have been on the committee.”
Gemma: “I volunteer at Citizen’s Advice monthly and support clients helped by DAVSS [a local domestic abuse charity] as well, providing, typically, three sessions a week. In addition, I enjoy networking, primarily with Sevenoaks Chamber of Commerce and enTWine.
Katie – the Private Client team has organised a programme of myth busting lunches for local professionals.
Katie: “They have been really well received. It’s always nice to keep in contact with local businesses and maintain those relationships.”
John – you were involved with a mock trial recently organised by Kent Law School [University of Kent], playing a starring role as the defendant.
John: “Yes, that was good fun actually and I think I’m on the list of ‘actors’ to call upon now for future trials! You’re given a brief but have to improvise and I got caught out. My alibi was that I was with my ‘girlfriend’ on the night of the incident. The barrister asked me what we ate and I said spaghetti bolognaise. She wasn’t in the room when I said that and, when asked the same question, she said steak and chips. So, it was obvious we hadn’t been together on the night in question. There were four undergraduates as barristers – two for the prosecution and two for the defence - and all of them were really good. In fact, one of them won a mini pupillage.”
“CooperBurnett has established a strong relationship with Kent Law School, particularly senior lecturer, Darren Weir, and that’s great. Kent Law School has benefited, as it is now getting students coming to Tunbridge Wells-based firms – including Joshua [Hayes], who is part of our team now.”
Gemma: “I have really enjoyed attending the careers fair at Beacon Academy [in Crowborough] for a couple of years. The students are great and such fun to talk to.”
CooperBurnett is well known for its charity and community involvement. John – you cycled from London to Paris in 24 hours, while Gemma – you walked 100km over two days at part of our Race To The King team.
Gemma: “Fundraising is the way charities survive but our charity involvement also helps how we are seen as a firm as well. In addition, taking part in charity challenges – such as the Walk Tonbridge Marathon – is a great way of getting to know members of the team you don’t work with on a daily basis. We do make sure we get together as a firm; for instance, we had a lunch for everyone on our floor this week and I sat next to a newer member of the team and that was a lovely chance to get to know her.”
John: “As a firm, we’ve been involved with the Tunbridge Wells Legal Walk for many years. It’s a lovely evening and you get to walk and talk with lawyers from around the town and find out what they’re up to while, at the same time, raising funds for Citizen’s Advice.”
Is it busy in Property Litigation at the moment John?
John: “Yes, it is, there’s been no let up. Broadly, I’m working on all sorts of things from boundary disputes to disputes between commercial landlords and residential landlords. You name it. Everything is coming through the door at the moment; a really wide range of work.”
“What is good is our inclusion in the Legal 500. It means an awful lot to lawyers and is a real recruitment flag, a proper feather in our cap.”
“With the new Government in place, I think it will be quite unsteady and unsettled for the next couple of years. This week, I’ve spoken with landlords who own flats and are now looking to sell up. The removal of no-fault evictions has been on the cards for a while, but with Labour in, that will no doubt still be pushed through. A lot of landlords who are not professional landlords are looking to sell up, so I think you’ll see more evictions.”
Katie and Gemma – is it busy in Private Client and Family as well?
Katie: “Yes, it is. Historically, the summer period is probably our quietest period but currently it’s consistent. Within our team, I’m predominately dealing with high-net-worth estates, Katie [Hancock] tends to deal with the LPA, court of protection work; while Sarah [Strong] is involved with more complex Wills. Between us, we cover it all really.”
“As regards Private Client, it will be interesting to see what the Autumn Budget unveils in terms of CGT [Capital Gains Tax] and IHT [Inheritance Tax] particularly and I know people are getting very worried.”
Gemma: “Our work is steady but the summer break can be a catalyst for phone calls. We’ve had people contact us while they are still away in the past. In addition, more people are acquainted with pre-nuptial and post-nuptial agreements, so we’re getting more approaches about those.”
Finally, law can be pressured. What do you do within the working day to step away for a bit?
John: “I go up onto the Common and enjoy tramping around. It’s just so peaceful and we are very lucky to have it on our doorstep; I always go to the same lady for a cup of tea at the Cricket Ground. It is so beneficial to get away from the computer and switch off for a little while.”
Katie: “I keep saying I’m going to rejoin the gym. I used to go every lunchtime and it really helped me to reset.”
Gemma: “I do an hour of Duolingo [the language app] each day and I’m learning Spanish and French. I’ve got a six-year streak and I still don’t know either language! We were in France a little while ago and I said, with confidence, ‘the laundry is in the living room’ but the gentleman looked confused. It wasn’t until afterwards I realised I’d said ‘the monkey is in the living room’…
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